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POLL: Do You Back RTC Paid Parking, Set to Begin Jan. 3?

by Andrew Ramonas December 8, 2016 at 10:20 am 102 Comments

Park RTC (Image via Reston Town Center)

Reston Town Center is set to start collecting parking fees Jan. 3 for the first time since it opened in 1990, the retail and residential complex announced yesterday.

The paid parking system, which was beset by months of delays, will require visitors to the center to pay $2 an hour on weekdays, with a maximum of $24 a day. Parking will remain free on Saturdays and Sundays, and there will be validation and discounts from retailers that will bring costs down.

RTC owner Boston Properties is encouraging drivers to use the free ParkRTC App to make parking payments. But motorists without the app can use one of four garage pay stations or call 571.485.7790 to pay for parking.

Do you support paid parking at the center? You can weigh in through the poll and in the comments.

Image via Reston Town Center

  • milky tea

    I vote no, I would be much less inclined to visit RTC because of the paid parking. I was meeting with a friend on a weekly basis, but due to the pending paid parking we’re looking for other places to meet.

  • Alison

    I would be all in favor of paying a fee after getting the first two hours free. That way it wouldn’t hurt the merchants and it would keep out commuters. But I refuse to download a parking app.

    • ichrysso

      It has nothing to do with stopping commuters. It’s a money grab, plain and simple. This is why BP has only recently been negotiating with each business on parking benefits for the employees. If this was in the plan all along, it would have already been in the businesses’ rental agreements.

  • p_m

    It’s bad for business.

  • Joe Heflin

    I’ve posted this elsewhere: the APP is an unnecessary, complicating step. If you must have paid parking why not just roll your window down, take a ticket, park, insert the ticket and credit card in the slot and then leave? The APP is not known by those who do not live here-it is a reason not to visit.

    And then there is the consideration for paid parking. There are many alternatives (i.e. One Loudoun, Tysons, RTC West, Vienna, etc.): this is a very real risk for Boston Properties. It will also influence the ability to sell a condo or rent an apartment in one of the residential buildings at Town Center. Many need an additional space to suppliment their reserved one. Now, an extra $300 or so a month may steer them elsewhere.

    Reston Town Center has been enormously successful. Why is Boston Properties risking this? Whether a visit to a bank, dry cleaner, shopping, dinner or visiting a friend in a Town Center apartment this is a step that once enacted cannot be reversed. When people hear that Town Center has paid parking and uses an APP they will have a reaction. For many they will not visit. For many they will go elsewhere and not return even if the paid parking is rescinded or the APP simplified.

    • noodmik

      Mr. Heflin — People that live in Market Street Condos and such places that use the RTC parking garages as extra parking spaces are free loaders in a sense. If you lived in West Market in one of the townhouses, would you be agreeable with random people parking their cars in your driveway (you know… they have an extra car and needed a spot, but Boston Properties is now charging freeloaders to park)? If yes, please let me know which driveway I can use. Thanks!!! 🙂

      • Joe Heflin

        I believe this is the real reason that Boston Properties are going to paid parking: there may be several hundred cars a night that park in the many Town Center parking garages without paying. It would seem that a more reasonable approach would be to charge them an appropriate monthly fee to park ($100-150 per month?) and have them register their cars. And leave those who shop, dine and visit Town Center the ability to park free.

        • noodmik

          Will you or will you not let me park in your driveway? And no, this is not any innuendo there. People gotta park!

          • Edward Calvert

            Is this the real reason for paid parking? Parking could be free from 6 pm to 12 or 1 am. Then it could revert to paid or no parking. There are garages in Arlington that do this. But that doesnt seem very neighborly out here in the burbs . Id let my neighbor use my driveway if his was full. Ps but don’t be a parking Grinch ! Girlfriends / boyfriends who visit overnight park out there ! Inadvertently forced to pay for nookie !?! Outrageous! 🙂

          • Mike M

            Brilliant! I wanna tax other people’s nookie! BP is slicker than the government! If Obama had just four more years, . . .

      • Michael C

        This is a scary thought. I live in West Market and with RTC paid and the new metro coming soonish, I am sure the currently never-enforced visitor parking will have to be very strictly monitored with towing. Right now it’s never a hassle to have a friend park without giving them the visitor pass.

  • Scott H

    It’s a naked cash grab that BP lied about. The commuter excuse is pure fabrication. That could be addressed by offering 3-4 hours of free parking. The initial plan to have RTC employees pay also shows this. There are many other choices in reston that do not require payment and a tracking app and I plan to avoid RTC out of principle.
    NAKED.CASH.GRAB.

  • cRAzy

    BosProp can require a parking fee, but they can’t require me to park there. ‘Nuf said.

  • Lori Decker Buck

    I am not in favor of the paid parking. Who exactly benefits? It’s effectively adding a surcharge for shoppers, moviegoers, restaurant patrons and others who frequent the center.

    I think the paid parking is ridiculous considering no other shopping center in the vincinity charges for parking. I like RTC because it’s convenient (I can walk there from home). However, RTC doesn’t offer anything that I can’t find at Tysons, Dulles Town Center or Fair Oaks, which all offer much more in terms of shopping and services than RTC does. After Barnes & Noble was forced out of Spectrum, I began doing more of my shopping at Tysons. I expect that I’ll do all of my weekday shopping there once RTC’s parking fees go into effect. Paying for parking is a hassle as well as an expense, and I am not willing to download the app.

    If the concern is to limit commuters, there are many other options available that would not punish businesses and patrons.

    I’m on my way to a Tysons now. Not too soon to get in the habit. Sorry, RTC.

    • Joe Heflin

      One Loudoun has actually become a very real alternative to Town Center for many. Vienna, with Clarity, Bazin’s and a number of new restaurants is a consideration. And then, under construction is RTC West, Reston Heights and the “new” Old Town Herndon.

      • Mike M

        You are about the 20th person who I’ve seen or heard mention One Loudoun. There is at least one other reference below. I have been there since the early days of Alamo. It was a ghost town for a while. But now it’s really taking off. But they will need a parking garage. The current sprawling lots are getting a little crazy.

        • Michael C

          There is a parking garage at One Loudoun.

          • Joe Heflin

            There is also a great deal of critical mass that is now open there including a new restaurant from Bryan Voltaggio, along with perhaps 15 or more others. One Loudoun does not yet have the condos and apartments that Reston Town Center has but a great deal of construction is underway with at least one project offering condos in their downtown. My wife and I were there on Monday and I believe it is a fair statement that One Loudoun is a directly comparable alternative to Reston Town Center. There are a very real five or six blocks of dining and entertainment that is now open. We actually wondered if Boston Properties has looked at it lately.

            They should before they start paid parking.

            They are going to force a lot of people to try One Loudoun who may not come back to Reston Town Center-even if BP rescinds paid parking.

          • Mike M

            I’ve never seen it. Always parked out back to the right of Alamo. I’ll have to check it out next time.

          • Joe Heflin

            Consider trying to park directly in front of Voltaggio’s new Italian restaurant or a block away by the new Fresh Market. This is the far end of One Loudoun.

      • Lori Decker Buck

        All of whom will soon be advertising their free parking, if they aren’t already!

  • Adrian Havill

    But, but having paid parking will make RTC even more “elite.”

  • ichrysso

    I guess BP never did their diligence regarding a similar suburban paid parking fiasco in Rockville. Business owners are furious… Good luck, BP – I will be part of the boycott and encourage everyone to stand up to this.

  • Citizen

    This is going to hurt the small business owner of RTC tremendously. We have recently seen a few shop closures, the only thing surviving seems to be corporate business that can take a loss. RTC has a reputation of being unique, no more than two restaurants/shops can be the same. This, made it cool and hip and interesting. But now.. it’s going to turn into a whole lot of chain-restaurants and chain-stores because the unique and small business owner shops will suffer financially and not be able to maintain a presence.

    • Ming the Merciless

      RTC has a reputation of being unique, no more than two restaurants/shops can be the same.

      It does? It’s mostly the same chain stores you can find anywhere.

    • Guest

      Really? I love Reston, but most stores/restaurants are chains. Unique applies to other aspects of Reston, but not RTC.

  • Elite Millenial

    Please BP….implement it this time so I can park my BMW on the first floor and keep cheapskates out!

    • Arielle in NoVA

      ^ says the anti-spirit-of-Reston poster

      • Mike M

        My sarcasm detector went off when I read his name.

  • Chuck Morningwood

    Boston Properties can do as they please. I won’t be attending their “Paid Parking Party” though.

  • Karen

    My understanding is that in addition to collecting revenue, Boston properties will use the information provided through the parking ap for marketing purposes.

    • Lori Decker Buck

      All the more reason not to use the app.

    • JoeInReston

      They don’t even have to use the parking app. When you park and pay without using the app, you have to provide your license plate number during the payment process.

    • DontBeStupid

      So does Facebook. So does your television and internet provider. So does your credit card company. So does your gas station. Mob mentality.

      • JoeInReston

        Tracking is the cost of using Facebook. Boston Properties will track you and charge you. Double the evilness!

  • Edward Calvert
  • Reston Roulette

    There are options to make this less painful for local residents and commuters alike but since Boston Properties does not want to pursue an alternate pricing structure I do not want to spend my money at Reston Town Center.

  • Christina

    Reston was specifically built for all income level people in our community. This is a ploy to “filter” the people who shop and dine at RTC. Plain and simple. The late, great founder of Reston, Robert E. Simon, Jr., would not approve.

    • Why do you bother?

      I wonder – was he well enough when this started to know about it? Did he have an opinion/

    • ah

      I just realized that it is away to filter out lower socioeconomic backgrounds.

  • Karen Marginot

    RTC is way, way outdated at this point. It’s showing its age; is grungy and uninviting. I’ve been a longtime Reston resident, but find myself driving a little farther for great restaurants, a fabulous movie theater, a fun shopping experience, and overall friendly spot — with FREE parking — at Mosaic.

    • Joe Heflin

      I actually love Reston Town Center and having travelled heavily throughout North America and Europe am proud to call this home. My frustration and disappointment is Boston Properties is sadly misjudging what our community will understand, accept and continue to use. I’ve entertained visitors for years where we’ve ended up at Town Center for dinner. Now we will drive through it on our way to Clarity, L’auberge, Ten Penh or One Loudoun. Actually it will be interesting to compare activity in Reston to the explosive popularity of Loudoun’s new downtown.

      • DontBeStupid

        I doubt you will change, the convenience of RTC surpasses the trivial cost of parking.

        • Joe Heflin

          Actually, I have-I love Vienna’s Clarity and believe that Tysons’ new Ten Penh is a destination in and of itself. Each trip to either of these is a trip that otherwise would have been to Town Center or downtown D. C. (which I passionately love). I should also note that I walk around and through Town Center at least once or twice a week as part of longer three mile walk that starts on the far side of Reston Hospital where I park. I’ve been doing this for years and especially enjoy it in the summer and on weekends. I have a very real reference for foot traffic from these experiences and look forward to any change in activity that I might see. I understand January weather but I also know how long the wait should be at Jackson’s on Friday @7:00PM or how many are on the skating rink on a crisp, clear Saturday afternoon.

          And what floor of the garage above Jackson’s I will have to drive to before I find an empty space.

          If my stepson and his wife become regulars at Top Golf on Saturday nights instead of Jackson’s I’ll have a pretty good idea, too. They’ve been Town Center regulars for five or more years and started looking around this past summer. Interestingly they’ve been going out to One Loudoun almost esclusively for the last month or so since discovering it.

  • Guest

    We’re a suburbs – 18-20 miles away from a city. With plenty of free parking at other suburban shopping centers and areas, why would I pay to park? Why do I want to give my personal info or hassle with other payment methods? Sorry, shopping/eating elsewhere.

  • Arielle in NoVA

    Parking in Reston should be free. Reston is supposed to be a place where ALL residents can work, play, shop, and live. It’s not a big city. It’s not even a city. Heck, it’s not even a town. It’s just a place. A Place Called Reston – anyone remember that these days? Sadly, it’s now a place overrun by greedy developers and people (BoS, I’m looking at you in particular) helping them to get rich by ruining the area. It would be one thing if Reston was a town and the parking money collected went to benefit Reston directly (street maintenance, town events, holiday decorations, homeless shelter), but it isn’t and it doesn’t. The money is going into a greedy corporation’s pockets.

    • Robert Mowbray

      I don’t have a cell phone and don’t intend to acquire one so that I can park in RTC. The alternatives to using the app. are too complex and time consuming.

      • Larry

        No one has bee able to explain how one without a smart phone can get the free parking validation code offered by some merchants and the theatre, into the garage kiosk to avoid a credit card charge. This is especially unwelcoming to handicapped seniors.

        • JoeInReston

          There is a plan for that. I can’t recall the specifics, but I do recall the validation code is only good for your next trip to the RTC. It won’t discount your current trip.

          • Larry

            Funny but after several email exchanges with BP and parkRTC they have not explained the “plan”, but thx.

    • Edward Calvert

      We need to figure out how to get control of our community before it’s really too late

      • Damon Feldman
      • TheKingJAK

        If we can manage to become town, then we can gain control.

        • Edward Calvert

          Hey let’s go to circuit court and petition for town status ! I bet fairfax county and the Bos would luv that. We only need 1000 residents and a petition signed by 100 voters. Dream big !

        • JoeInReston

          Look how well the RA has managed Reston. I mean that in a ‘lack there of’ sense. The RA hasn’t distinguished themselves any better than Fairfax County elected officials. It may be a pick your poison style decision in terms of whether a Reston only governing body can do better than the current Fairfax County government.

          And then there is a secondary issue on a) whether any governing body can legislate RTC parking fees, and b) even if they could, whether a governing body should legislate RTC parking fees.

  • Michael

    1. I’m a resident of the TC and I object to having visiting family, friends and services (such as house cleaners or personal trainers, pay for parking; 2. There is no conceivable reason why the paid parking has to be for 24 hours; 3. I know a number of people who are moving from the TC (and from Reston) because of the paid parking; 4. There is no provision for parking for people with disabilities who can’t easily get from place to place in the TC without a car (indeed, there is little or no parking for people with disabilities on the street at all even now). I agree with Allison who proposed at least two hours free, but I am particularly against the 24 hour requirement.

    • Willie Reston

      #3 seems a little extreme. They live in TC and are moving out of Reston altogether because other people who aren’t TC residents might have to pay to park their cars there?

      • Joe Heflin

        Many apartments have more cars than assigned spaces. Now these cars are parking for free, often in public garages. I actually would agree with Boston Properties on this-there should be some kind of monthly charge for the garage parking. But here is the problem for those who drive these cars: absent a flat rate monthly charge (i.e. $100-150 overnight), there is probably a serious concern that the actual cost might be double this. For some this is a serious increase in their rent. As noted elsewhere there is also the concern for visitors, professional assistance, etc. especially when these are frequent visits.

        • Edward Calvert

          But why should BP charge overnight ? This paid parking is to purpotedly stop *commuters*. Last time I checked metro didn’t run overnight. They should be concentrated on biz hours, not 24 hours.

          Reston has always been free parking. It’s the suburbs. Sure you can say that BP wants more return on their investment. To maintain fiduciary responsibility to shareholders , ie corporate greed. But I know of dozens of lots owned by banks, government orgs, schools, empty lots, the harris teeter, etc that don’t charge for overnight parking and don’t enforce signage for towing. BP is just a big corporate jerk.

          As others have pointed out, it won’t be viewed as neighborly. The money isn’t going to help reston in anyway (roads, schools, homeless shelter, etc ). It’s going straight into the pocket of a greedy Corp in boston. With yearly revenues of 2.4 Billion. That’s BILLION with a B.

          So maybe paid parking will be here to stay. But everyone will look down their nose at it and bp. Who knows what effect it will have on visitors and residents you yourself pointed out what risks it will be for bp, ie harder to rent units or sell, effect on retail stores. Long term etc

  • Jayne G

    I really don’t know why you are bothering with this questionnaire. Boston Properties has made it quite clear they don’t care what we want and are unwilling to even discuss a compromise. There are many alternatives, like 2 to 3 hours free parking , that would deter commuters but still entice shoppers. I feel very sorry for the many merchants who will be hurt badly by this BP’s blatantly greed.

  • John K Nusbaum

    The Boston Properties pay parking is nothing more than a money grab because they think that they can get away with it. My Reston residents email newsletter will call for a weekday boycott of the Town Center businesses with the exception of movie parking on Tuesdays were patrons will be given 4 free hours.

    • Edward Calvert

      Boycott ! They only understand money

  • Phil Lilienthal

    Boston Properties shot themselves in the foot, initially, by calling this a restraint on commuter parking. There are many ways to curb that, such as a first 4 hours free (for dinner and a movie) policy.

    To describe it as a money grab might be unfair, but they have set themselves up for that. I understand top management changed in Boston and the new guy is intent on proving his toughness/business savvy by maximizing profits. Before this, the local BP ran itself. I hope he is wrong and a boycott results. I enjoy RTC, but am certainly not wed to it.

    More important, it is counter to the Reston ethos of community and inclusion. They will become a very bad neighbor if they insist on this result.

    • Edward Calvert

      We can’t let some Mr Burns wannabe from Boston push our community around ! Restonian s are smarter than that. Organize ! It’ll only take a few months in their wallet to show them. *grabs pitchfork and torch*

      • DontBeStupid

        Are these the same Restonians which overwhelmingly voted yes for the lake house? Are these the same Restonians that voted overwhelmingly no to the meals tax causing our real estate taxes to go up?
        Are these the same Restonians who are willing to pay an extra $20 for a “look at me , I’m special and hang out in RTC”.
        Yup, the same ones who complain about somebody else trying to earn a buck on their investment, those Restonians.
        Good luck with you boycott.

        • Edward Calvert

          Oh, great, another faceless anon troll. You’re in the minority on this thread, dbs. Ps I had nothing to do with the lake house.

        • Joe Heflin

          It’s not a boycott. A parking App and its implimentation is a significant change to what has been an enduring relationship with Town Center for a couple of decades. The introduction is time to coincide with a significant restaurant opening in Tysons (Ten Penh), a restaurant we love in Vienna, Clarity, and a new Town Center, One Loudoun, which has opened a significant number of stores and restaurants just over the past 3 or 4 months. All of these simply have easier, non complicated access. It’s not just about the money; rather, they are simple and familiar. There is not a new system to learn or information to needlessly share. Demographics are similar-age, education-I feel as comfortable there as I do at Town Center.

        • 30yearsinreston

          Meals tax rejection did NOT cause property taxes to go up

  • Kate

    There are plenty of other great places to eat and shop in and near Reston that have free parking. Also, I would choose to go somewhere else instead of RTC, despite the lovely park.

  • Dan Moody

    I had the opportunity to spend an hour with Bob Simon over coffee shortly before his death. I believe this violates much of the reason Reston was established and another example of a Big Business Bully Pulpit! Will avoid Reston Town Center as much as possible!

  • Hank from Reston

    This will diminish the Town Center experience with the loss of long-term local tenants and the inconveniences caused by the paid parking process. Lots of stores will lose business and the place will be less lively.

  • Why do you bother?

    Where’s the OH, HELL NO! option?

  • Tony L

    If Tysons I and II, and One Loudoun can provide free parking, not sure why RTC now wants to charge for something that has been free for so long.

  • Bitemore Gfotwo

    Of course I am against paid parking, and for all the reasons so eloquently stated by virtually everyone in this forum! I, too, refuse to have anything to do with RTC, and hope and pray that enough people boycott it that it will be forced to change its policy. Town Center has absolutely NOTHING that can’t be gotten elsewhere, with free parking, and probably cheaper, too! I’m totally fed up with greed. That’s all we see these days: greed, everything for the rich, nothing for anyone else. Greed. Unbelievable! And so very, very sad.

  • BStine

    It is almost reasonable to look for a way of protecting the RTC parking lots from becoming the lots of choice for Metro users once the western station goes on line. But to use a kluggy system that apparently is only currently used in Nevada verses Parkmobile which most of us have already and use up and down the east-coast, is a bit strange to say the least (and avoid troll-ish nomenclature). Additionally, my guess (and no, I’m not an economist) would be that the aggregate of monies that will accrue following the implementation of the program, if both Boston Properties’ and the local merchants’ bottom lines are tallied, will tend to list disproportionately toward the former at the expense of the latter.

  • Nancy

    I will never go to the RTC again — and I have lived in Reston since 1997. You have shown me the face of greed, and I reject it.

  • Nancy

    I will also encourage all of my neighbors, friends and co-workers to BOYCOTT the Reston Town Center.

    I feel sorry for the merchants and their employees.

    It is NOT too late to reverse this terrible decision….

  • Tom

    $2 is nothing. It keeps undesirables away.

    • Joe Heflin

      They are not making it easy to spend $2.00 an hour. You are not talking puish button, receive ticket leave; return, insert ticket, insert credit card, leave.

      There is a new system with information you have to supply. Two dollars an hour. Five hours is Ten dollars.

  • meyerweb

    There is nothing at RTC that I can’t find elsewhere, with convenient, free parking. Bye, bye RTC.

  • 30yearsinreston

    Not paying ever
    They should pay us for shopping there

  • 30yearsinreston

    Beware the App.
    It is spyware that can be easily hacked
    Anyone who down loads it have only themselves to blame

    • Edward Calvert

      I can barely call it an app. More like digital shakedown. It’ll be like the ez pass. You’ll never really know how much you spend on the dang toll road until the bill if you even check.

      • Joe Heflin

        I honestly think the APP is a bigger issue than the paid parking. There is literally a whole generation of people who simply won’t go to Town Center because of it. Whoever is making the decision for Boston Properties doesn’t seem to understand this.

  • North Restonian

    I will never pay for parking there, simple as that. Nothing there is so compelling to do so. This is a mistake.

  • LakeAnne Resident

    Come to Lake Anne! We are not the retail juggernaut that the RTC is, but we have a good time!

  • Restonisfree

    I do believe most of us will simply boycott and go elsewhere. Not that we can’t afford it, just because it’s wrong, greedy and selfish on the part of developers. I don’t want to support that, as they’ll try it elsewhere given the opportunity and compliance.

  • Bert in Reston

    Goodbye Reston Town Center. I’m not coming back.

    I’m continually amazed at how they are willing to destroy their tenants.

  • Enough!

    I will not patronize a place that actively discourages me from coming.

    Reston is becoming completely unlivable. Did you hear that, CATHY HUDGENS???

  • JBW

    Ok. They want me to buy a cell phone so that I can download their app? An idea no doubt hatched from a brainless millennial.

  • Greg

    Tysons doesn’t charge for parking; why does RTC need to?

  • Fallon

    Not paying. Simply not paying. Ever.

  • Joe Heflin

    Fascinating: 94% are against paid parking in the poll associated with this. 94%!

    Even more remarkable is that each vote is a very real individual vote from a specific e-mail address-you can’t vote twice (Apologetically, I tried.)

    94 per cent….

    • JoeInReston

      Shockingly low in my opinion. A few smart-alex’s in every online poll.

  • Evey Hammond

    Let the boycott begin!

  • Damon Feldman

    This is unfortunate. Reston has always been a walkable, easy access community, and the town center a big part of that. Many people supported development in the center, bought houses in locations and generally expected that RTC would remain a walkable core with free parking around it.

    While charging is legal, it’s bad for the community, and completely reasonable that the community now make things worse (less profitable) for Boston Properties. Our only leverage is to shop elsewhere until the tenants deliver this message on our behalf, or move out altogether.

  • TheKingJAK

    Restonians already pay annual fees for a variety of local services, on top of the additional county fees which they along with every other Fairfax County resident pay. The last thing the good residents of this community need to be doing is paying for the ability to use their own downtown, especially when it benefits a private entity. Maybe it’s about time that Reston finally becomes a town in control of its own future, and actually maintains the concept of public space downtown.

  • RC

    Pure greed!

  • Joe Heflin

    Proud to be the 100th post in this thread. I’ve read restonnow.com since the day started and, I believe, this is the first topic to have 100 responses.

    My wife and I drove through National Harbor tonight which is a beautiful planned Reston like development on the Potomac. Similar overall size, number of restaurants and entertainment, amount of retail; similar on site and nearby residential development. Also, like Reston, a number of garages for parking.

    They are all free. Street parking is free, too.

  • Ihor Jarema

    And we thought 2016 ended with a bang. 2017; paid TC parking, $692.00 RA assessments, more cost overruns for the RA lake house, more highrise development, more congestion, higher property taxes, less Silver Line service… we’re off to a great start.

  • Gmr1093

    Paid parking takes away from the allure of town center as a “town center.” Yes, it has grown considerably in the past 20+ years (understatement), but it has always been a fixture in the community. I understand the metro is coming and boston properties sees this as a way to capitalize on the new traffic. Its just unfair to those of us who live here and who arent just parking for metro or just passing through. Its a very disappointing situation all around.

  • If every other shopping center with the exception of National Harbor, Arlington and DC can figure this out, Reston should be able to find a solution for its patrons. Or risk the boycott and folks moving elsewhere

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